About the actual bill; https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/Work-of-Committees/Committees/Committee-Details?cid=272&id=8575
“allowing PMDs to be used on any road up to 60 km/h to support rider choice and reduce traffic on footpaths.”
If I’m reading this bit correctly they are not allowed on roads with a limit above 60? If that is the case I would be unable to ride my actually legal ebike to a few nearby suburbs, including the one I work in - due to the roads being 70. Absolutely ridiculous.
Ebikes are not PMDs, though obviously there are a lot of overlaps in what laws are applicable. This is one aspect of the law that only applies to PMDs. That’s escooters, eskateboards, etc.
Currently, PMDs can only use the road if the speed limit is 50 km/h or less, and even then only if there is either a bike lane (which they can and must—unlike bikes—use) or if there is no dividing line or median strip. The proposed change is to increase that from 50 to 60, and simplifying it to remove all the other stuff. So the rule will go from:
the rider of a personal mobility device must not ride on—
(a) a road with a dividing line or median strip; or (b) a length of road for which the speed limit applying to a driver is more than 50km/h; or (c) a one-way road with more than 1 marked lane.to
the rider of a personal mobility device must not ride on a length of road for which the speed limit applying to a driver is more than 60km/h.
But ebikes can go anywhere analogue bikes can go. That’s not changing, apart from how fast they can go on some paths.
There is a mass-ride event to protest the e-bike laws in Qld being held on Wednesday starting at 5pm from Raymond Park. Event being organised on the blue site: https://www.facebook.com/events/26438874392465778/
Event being organised on the blue site
Cycling advocacy is honestly one of the biggest things keeping me on Facebook. It’s frustrating.
Yeah I feel you there. I’m not on Facebook so I just attend these sort of public events. I’ve mentioned it to BQ and South BUG before but the impression I got was that Facebook works for the majority.
Country has public health system and runs extensive preventative health campaigns to reduce preventable illness and burden on healthcare system.
Meanwhile encourages people on bikes on to roads with vehicles which weigh over a tonne and have extensive blind spots with nothing more than some polystyrene on their head.
This is blatant corruption of the political process by the motor vehicle lobby. Call it out wherever you see it. Vehicularisation of cycling is a dead end. It only works for a minority if risk taking, super fit cyclists willing to play chicken. Everyone else is excluded.
insane
Sounds like this proposed legislation has been written by the automotive and fossil fuel industry lobby groups.
I disagree, those groups hate having to share the road with push cyclists, let alone scooters and ebikes
The actual effect of this bill is entirely to get people off of bikes and back in cars. It serves no valid purpose other than that.
But the petrol lobbys don’t want this, they want less cars so it’s easier to drive and park?
What is this nonsense? The petrol lobby wants as many cars as they can get.
What petrol lobby? We have like 1 or 2 at the federal level, but I’m unaware of any operating in qld?
They aren’t the most influential here cos we don’t have a petrol industry.
Leaving mostly automotive lobby groups, which there are a few and these do operate in qld. But the aren’t advocating for ‘get more cars on the road’
Your last comment said “petrol lobbys don’t want this, they want less cars”. Your latest comment says “what petrol lobby?” Which is it? You’re changing your argument. It feels like a very blatant example of motivated reasoning at best, or deliberate shifting of the goalposts at worst.
If you’re going to post conservative anti-bike talking points, at least get your story internally straight first!
Yes it was a poor choice of words on my part, I was going off what you said, and yes I assumed that by petrol lobbys that you were talking automotive lobby groups, which all my points relate to… I assumed this because as I said there aren’t petrol lobby groups in qld, or at least none that I know of.
When you doubled down I carrified the difference.
Do you care to clarrify which petrol lobby groups are influencing this legislation? Or does my point still stand that there aren’t any, and your remark about the fact it’s thier legislation is ‘fake news’ fearmongering
If you’re from Queensland, I highly, highly recommend you write to your state MP, to Brent Mickelberg (the Minister for Transport), and to the committee themselves: SDIWC@parliament.qld.gov.au
- You’ll have to have a driver’s licence to ride an escooter or ebike
- Kids won’t be allowed to ride ebikes to school (since they’re under age)
- You won’t be allowed to go over 10 km/h on footpaths or shared paths. These make up over 90% of what is called “bikeways” in Brisbane, is less than a jogging pace (or even than a toddler can do on a balance bike!), and is less than the safe minimum recommended speed according to TMR
- RBTs will be allowed for cyclists
- ebikes will be required to conform with the EN-15194:2017+A1 standard. This was only created a couple of years ago, and the vast, vast majority of entirely safe EN-15194 ebikes do not meet it. One person went to their local bike store and found a single ebike that met this standard for sale…a child’s model.
There’s some good stuff in it too though.
- Give police the power to impound and destroy non-compliant bikes
- Power to charge parents of kids who ride illegal e-motorbikes
But mostly really, really bad. So please, contact the relevant people to let them know how terrible an idea this is.
You can find out more information about the bill and how to format a submission here: https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/Work-of-Committees/Committees/Committee-Details?cid=272&id=8575 or by checking out Space4cyclingbne, Brisbane CBD BUG, or Brisbane West BUG on Facebook, or Bicycle Queensland (on their website or on FB).
holy trumping trump. Im not from there but I have seen similar efforts happening around me. They always fail to mention a lot of aspects and try to paint it like. Some e-bikes are like motorcycles and should be treated like them. You go and look at the specifics and its like. Wait you have crazy definitions.
I’m sorry but this doesn’t make sense to me and I am actually struggling to see why some of this legislation is a bad thing.
As someone who is frequently a pedestrian, out walking/running everyday having scooters fly past like they own the joint at 40km/h is dangerous.
Proposing to license users so they know the road rules to me makes sense to keep everyone safe. Else well have a tonne of 14 year olds with no understanding of road rules riding (unlimited) amongst cars. Also consider top speeds today will only increase tomorrow, it’s likely we aren’t far off these bikes getting to actual car like speeds.
Kids can ride ebikes to school, yes, speed limited and on the footpaths.
Yes you will be speed limited on footpaths, because it’s dangerous having unlimited speed bikes and scooters hooning past mostly walking traffic, and when sharing the footpath, they’ll still be traveling double what most people walk.
I agree that there’s a lot of people that ride considerately, slowing down in high ped traffic areas and only accelerating when its safe to do so. However for each of them there’s 3 absolute fkwits who speed through plazas and on narrow walkways whilst pedestrians dart out of the way. Unfortunately society can only walk as fast as our slowest person, which in this case is these fkwits.
It’s the same reason we have ridiculous car speed limits in some areas, most will go ‘this is a bit dangerous I should slow down a bit’ whilst one idiot will accelerate to 80km/h in the wet and take out a young family.
Because those scooters flying past at 40 km/h were already illegal. The police just can’t be bothered enforcing it.
The only people this new law is actually going to affect are those who are doing the right thing.
Kids can ride ebikes to school, yes, speed limited
Speed limited to the point that it’s absolutely useless. Speeds that you can easily exceed on foot.
And paths that are officially footpaths and shared paths make up over 90% of Brisbane’s “bicycle paths”. This isn’t restricted to highly pedestrianised areas. It’s most places people are tryijg to ride their bikes.
Correct and because they can’t patrol it they are building a new way to force compliance.
The people currently doing the wrong thing through rentals etc will now not have the ability to break the law. And a lot of the hoons I see now are on these rentals, much less are on thier own gear.
And mate your stretching the truth there (almost as much a Murdoch media) people cannot walk at 10km/h. People typically walk at like 4 mabes 5km/h, not the 11+ km/h you are alleging.
And I think we’re just gonna have to agree to disagree here, I see your point about 90% of this is footpaths, but in my view that supports this legislation, these are FOOTpaths ie holding pedestrian traffic, the vast majority of the time your gonna encounter someone walking to the bus, or carrying some groceries home on this footpaths, strolling at a casual pace and they don’t deserve to have some escooter, without notice, wipe them out.
people cannot walk at 10km/h
I didn’t say otherwise. I said “on foot”. Reinforcing the point from my post that it is a slow jogging pace.
90% of Brisbane’s bike paths are technically not classified as bike paths, but footpaths or shared paths. That’s paths like the Deagon Deviation Bikeway, significant parts of the North Brisbane Bikeway, the Cabbage Tree Creek Bikeway. These are called bikeways and are intended for use by bikes. But this shitty authoritarian pro-car law will effectively bar bikes from being ridden on bikeways.
And for what? Because they can’t be fucked actually dealing with the people riding electric motorbikes at above 25 km/h using a throttle using the laws that are already in place. It’s fucking stupid. And it’s indefensible. The best that could be said about it is that it’s fearmongering intended to sucker idiots in to supporting their anti-bike agenda.
All I’ll say to this is that on foot is primarily walking.
Will you come across some runners sure, but get out there and count them. You’ll be suprised at how outnumbered they are compared to walkers.
But you live in your little circle where you scream at the government going this is BS, because some pedestrians run these rules are wrong. Ignoring the vast vast vast majority that are walking and slow, sometimes elderly and wobble on thier feet, sometimes pushing a pram or herding little kids, let me speed past them as fast as I can.
And regarding the bikeways, they’ve said there is provision to increase speed limits on some ways these will be updated and you won’t have to do 10km/h on them.
Your arguments are the exact argument that motorists that ride cyclists off the road use. You are litterally in the same camp as them, I wanna go as fast as I want and no
cyclistpedestrian is gonna get in my way. Stop fearmongering and share the footpaths.because some pedestrians run these rules are wrong
Read what I fucking said. What people on foot are doing is completely irrelevant. What’s relevant is that 10 km/h is a fucking stupid speed limit to put on bikes. There’s absolutely no justification for making cycling a completely impractical mode of transport. None.
If people are riding dangerously on illegal motorbikes on footpaths and shared paths, then confiscate their illegal motorbikes and destroy them. There’s no reason to punish people who have done nothing wrong, and while you’re at it punish society as a whole by making cycling a less viable form of transport and forcing more people back into the world’s least efficient form of transport: private cars.
I did read what you said I just don’t agree, and you haven’t raised any reasonable points to persuade me to change my mind. Your point is 10km is too slow…!!! And it’s impractical!! and slow!! You raised a point that kids couldnt walk to school which I demonstrated was wrong, you raised that prebuilt bike paths would all be 10km/h which I also demonstrated was wrong.
You disregard what traffic is on these paths as ‘irrelevant’ when I couldn’t disagree more, the traffic that’s on the paths is entirely relevant and must be factored into the equation. This isn’t a ecyclists come first ignore all traffic that must be on the footpaths cos only ecyclists matter.
I still think the fact that most traffic on these paths is pedestrian, and that traffic is vastly people walking at 4km/h or less (just my assumption based on what I see), a speed limit on escooters and ebikes of more than double that on these shared pathways is reasonable.
I note your point on people acting dangerously already can have thier assets seized, and I ask you to remember police can’t patrol it as we know due to lived experience today.
If you read my comments you would see my point of, society has to walk as fast as thier slowest person, which is that idiot that hoons through footpaths knocking over the 80yr old getting his paper in the morning. So a flat speed limit is introduced to stop this from happening. Stop hating on me, and instead hate on the idiots, who had the option to do the right thing, didn’t and sped on footpaths, causing the government to introduce legislation to stop it from happening. It’s those idiots that made this legislation as if they hadve done the right thing you wouldnt be facing these changes.
I’m also a bit concerned that the licence requirement and 10 km/h limit may be sacrificial clauses intended to be dumped in response to feedback and give the appearance of compromise. There is so much more in this bill that needs to be avoided, it’s important to not easily let them get away with that.
sacrificial clauses
Very likely, great for car lobbyists (/donors) but impractical given it’s uptake. Plus tough on teens for the core demographic of miserable bastards. Pleasant fodder for the greens though once LNP goes back to Siberia for the next decade (hope, please)
Also, I don’t think they we’re expecting to be pilloried on the world stage as complete morons to the current level. It has gained some media presence,
