All of you, do yourselves a favour and read the Rivers of London series to get your fix of British Wizards:
- Actually competent world building
- They’ve got a lot of humour
- They’re not written by a bigot
Or give the audiobooks a listen as they’re read by Kobna Holdbrook-Smith who’s voice is like butter.
“No ethical, legal consumption.” FTFY
so you pirate it - but why? why would you want to consume something you know was made by someone who is awful?
First: Everything I’ve ever consumed has been touched at one stage or another by someone awful. It’s a case of statistical certainty given how many people have input into things. If you assume ~10% of people are bigots, then for it to be 99% likely that there’s one involved at least once, you need 44 people. Consider how many people had input into a PB&J. Do you find it plausible that none of them are bigots?
An absolutist stance on this issue is not possible for anyone not willing to be a hermit. The simple fact you’ve posted here proves you’re not willing to go to that length. (Or you’re using your ignorance of the specific nature of the evil involved as a shield.)
Second: it’s commonly understood that you don’t blame the child for the sins of the parent, how does this logic not apply here? It’s simply not the PB&J’s fault.
Third: you can’t taste the evil, and you can’t catch the evil from eating it. There is no “water memory” at play here. The sandwich is what it is, and should be judged for that. I wouldn’t eat a dangerously unsafe sandwich made by a saint either.
The gringotts are straight up an antisemitic caricature. There’s plenty of biggotry hidden in there.
And it’s not “touched” by someone awful, it’s main creator is someone awful… Huge difference.
If the owner of a restaurant is a Nazi that’s a lot different than it having a Nazi bus boy.
You know who directly profits every time you spend any money on it? A biggot.
That’s the parent, not the child.
If you support the franchise in any way at all, you’re feeding the biggot’s empire.
That’s why we boycott things entirely.
If you pirated it, seeded zero bytes, watched it in a vacuum and never spoke of it again, then maybe you’d be morally neutral, but you’re not.
It’s like being vegetarian but wearing used leather shoes… You’re still acting hypocriticallyIf it’s bad don’t read/watch it. I already said that. Judging a thing on it’s own merits is what I asked people to do.
We were discussing pirating it. So it’s more like hanging out at one of the tables and only drinking free water. Stay on track.
As for the boots? I don’t have a problem with how it was created. As far as I know, they didn’t grind up trans people as an ingredient of the show.
And I think vegans should wear leather if they care about consequences more than “sin” and “purity”. More cows are killed every year than could possibly be used by the leather industry, so you’re not killing another cow indirectly. Most fake leathers are terrible for the environment and also wear out faster. If we can get people to quit eating meat, that would change the morals because it would change the context of course.
Me:
If you pirated it, seeded zero bytes, watched it in a vacuum…
You:.
We were discussing pirating it … Stay on track.
You’re such a narcissist you have to pretend like people who disagree with you don’t understand you? I codemn your actions. Not just disagree with them.
I also think you’re horrible at debate.
“I’ll just pretend like you didn’t understand me, ignore what you said mostly, and then just repeat my same toothless argument”.Go back to reddit
You mentioned money before that. Why even bring it up first? As some kind of logical confetti to confuse the issue?
Stay on track.
You’re an idiot. A hypocritical idiot who supports fascist artwork.
Spamming me with name-calling? Really?
well put
thanks :)
something that’s occurring to me this morning:
it’s not enough that the potter fans want to have their fun; it’s not enough that they’re willing to ignore the hateful baggage and fund hate against their communities - I suspect there’s another aspect.
They’re upset we won’t shut up and come along. They genuinely resent that people have a line, have found a limit to what they’ll accept, because apparently they don’t have that line, that limit of what’s OK, and they resent people reminding them that they really should.
God damn I hate Harry Potter fans
I haven’t ingested most of it, but before I knew what jkr was, I listened to some of it as a book on tape, and tried to watch the first movie…
And it’s fucking horrible. I really don’t get why anyone over 12 enjoys it…
Like, she can’t even come up with good words.
…
I could kinda understand enjoying an artist’s work and separating the art from the artist, if they were just biggoted but kept it most in their private life, but she an extremely vocal, extremely active biggot… It’s the only cause she seems to care about. Not worried about hunger or poverty, disease or war, she’s happy to scrooge around with her billion dollars… But she’s obsessed with hurting trans people.
Watching her shit funds that.
If it was a couple bad instances and she apologized for losing her temper, I wouldn’t exactly forgive her, but I’d understand people watching her garbage. Artists tend to have emotional problems and do things that aren’t really in their character…
But this is deeply in her core. She has defined herself as a champion of biggotry for years.
Two thoughts. The first and most egregious one is, “Because it is entertaining and I enjoy it.”
Probably the more palatable reason, however, is to be able to engage in discourse regarding the content of the media in relation to its creator(s).
With this logic, why even turn on the TV?
it’s hard. I love the Sandman. I won’t watch it going forward, knowing Gaiman’s violence. I have the entire collected series, doubt ever read 'em again.
this is life: we change our plans when faced with reality, every day. you can choose to ignore the bigotry, but I choose to find new things to consume.
Anyone who was a part of it should have their work shunned forever.
The trans thing was so weird and seemed to come out of nowhere. Before she revealed herself to be such a weirdo willing to die on the most ignorant of hills, JKR was running around telling everyone who would listen that all these Harry Potter characters were gay. Like she said Dumbledore was obviously gay and had been lovers with Grindelwald. After her embrace of gay people her punching down at trans people/women was so unexpected and seemed so uncharacteristic and especially mean considering her popularity and enormous wealth and the respect and awe she USED to generate. She ruined her own legacy by not keeping her mouth gracefully shut, which is a massive problem these days with a lot of people who have more ego than sense.
Just to say up front, this is not a defense of her behavior, but as I understand it, the seed of this development seems to lie mostly in sexual abuse she suffered, along with what may be an internal struggle with her own gender identity that is informed by that abuse. Her beliefs are existential, as in focused on the continued existence and safety of her and other women. So when she recieves pushback, even light or friendly, the only response she can accept to give is digging in further and further, escalating more and more. At this point I don’t even think she needs an “opponent”. She’s stuck in fight-mode with no way out.
She didn’t embrace gay people, she used them as a prop for profit, to generate buzz, to get people taking about her and her books again. She did the exact same thing with black people when she tried to claim Hermione has been black the whole time, after a black actor played her in the Cursed Child play.
JK Rowling has always been a terrible person, and it shows in her writing and her actions if you look a bit more than surface-deep.
JK Row
yea Her books is part of her current behaviour, she disguises as something else.
I’ll bet she went on some YouTube rabbit hole sometime in COVID times. It’s such a 180 from where she used to stand.
I re-read the first chapter of the first Harry Potter book (old book, I didn’t give her any money) and it’s all about how Uncle Vernon and Aunt Petunia hated Harry being a wizard because it wasn’t normal, it didn’t fit their idea of normal, and they wanted to be seen as normal more than any else, but Harry couldn’t help being who he was. It’s not hard to read a gay or trans allegory into that.
She was already a TERF way before Covid.
I’ve never watched or read any of the Harry Potter stuff. So I feel pretty good right now.
Why do we even need a remake of the old movies? The movies are still holding up very well in this day and age. Why couldn’t they focus on some other story? Expand the universe a little. Hogwarts is not the only magic school that exists…
They tried expanding the world, it sucked and nobody liked it (also, the worldbuilding is so weak that it falls apart if you consider wider society outside of Hogwarts for five minutes, because the series started as books for grade schoolers)
The world building is weak because Rowling is a bad fantasy writer, not because it was written for grade schoolers. There are tons of series aimed at grade schoolers with incredible world building - Redwall, Warrior Cats, Earthsea, just to name a few, all have way better world building than Harry Potter.
Eh, I think it’s a bit of both? The first books just generally where fairly whimsy and light-hearted and you don’t really need your demographics and societal structures to make sense when you are writing a whimsical, light-hearted story for kids.
The later books become darker and more serious so the artifacts of those earlier worldbuilding decisions become more and more obvious over time.
Earthsea has some of the best world building of all time, but I’m not sure I’d say it was written for grade schoolers.
I feel like Earthsea is appropriate for middle-school-aged kids (so like 11-14ish), right? Maybe our definitions of “grade schoolers” is different, but I was trying to give examples for a wide range of ages
Actually that’s totally fair. There’s just some heady concepts in there, it certainly makes HP look much more childish and goofy.
Money and the Hollywood is going to mine the nostalgia until there is no more money left.
Because JK Rowling is pissed that the original cast doesn’t support her becoming a raging transphobe/capitalist goon.
Money.
but that excuse doesnt hold water either, why spend money on a remake when you can make money on a quick and easy and CHEAP remaster/re-release without any effort or inevitable backlash around casting choices
Remasters rarely make money.
The Blu-ray remaster of Star Trek (can’t remember which series) lost money.
No one would buy a re-release of a decade old Harry Potter film.
If your rlly into the harry potter movies just pirate them. They are like fine…
Don’t do it. Don’t watch it. Don’t hate watch it. Stop talking about it. Let it die. Let it fall out of the public eye. Make Rowling become irrelevant. Let some other world become your fandom instead of HP. The longer people pay attention to it, the longer Rowling continues to punish trans kids.
just like with star trek and Paramount, you cant be ethical and support ellison, just because star trek is on it too and its a"progressive show", and besides the 3 nutrek shows now cancelled seems to lean more of authortarian nature instead of a progressive one like old trek.
I don’t get this whole drama with Harry Potter. When I was younger, I was a big fan of Ender’s Game. A few years later it came out that the author of the Ender books was a huge bigot and was using his money to promote right-wing causes. I dropped the books, didn’t buy anything else from the author, and every other fan of the series that I talked to did the same. There wasn’t really any debate about it. When the movie came out, none of the fans of the books showed up and so it flopped.
With Harry Potter, though, it’s been years since we found out what kind of person J. K. Rowling is and people are still whinging about it. Why is this still even a debate (outside of right-wing transphobic circles, of course)? Find some other books to be a fan of.
I think part of the reason is that Harry Potter is one of the more interactive Fandoms. The world in Ender’s Game is more or less closed. The story is finished, the world isn’t too big.
Harry Potter on the other hand (much like e.g. Star Trek) is way more inviting to be interactive: Which house are you, what would be your favorite class, what might the other schools look like etc. It is (by design or not) built to invite engagement and also very marketable. The special foods, the shops, all the gimicky in-world-items, the classes…
You get people so invested into this world beyond the books because there are so many details that are marketable. Other fantasy or SciFi worlds just aren’t full of fun little items you can sell. In that regard Harry Potter is more like those kids shows that are made to sell toy lines.
So most people are way more emotionally attached to the stories. It wasn’t just the books and a Halloween costume. It was years of choosing your house, learning about potions, discussing brooms, trying to cook the food, etc.
Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Never before in history had a book series held such sway over a large portion of an entire generation of humans. Something like that is going to continue to have a place in popular discourse, largely because the average person is either ignorant of the issue or simply doesn’t care.
Also, in capitalism a moneymaker like HP simply isn’t allowed to die.
It’s about kids playing with magic sticks
When has that fact ever stopped kids from playing with the sticks?
Keyword is kid.
If you’re major and still like that shit it’s time to grow up lmao
Being a right wing bigot it cool now. There’s literally nothing you can do today to get actually cancelled.
Well… there is one way…
Aye, matey. There be a way, for those who are so inclined.
No. There isn’t.
Pirate yar har
Several comments here already that explain why this is not a good answer.
Actual consumption.
With like a fork.
There are starving children that could be eating the show.
With these grocery prices, I will gladly eat media.
I prefer Michael Rosen’s poetry. Seriously!
Imagine being an adult and still caring about Harry Potter.
Read some books written for adults.
What a terrible take.
JK Rowling is a bigot, but otherwise, liking the books would not be a problem and you’d be an ass for that opinion.
Exactly, imagine if this controversy were happening with Lord of the Rings instead lol
Wait a minute, I always fucking hated Harry Potter!
<insert relevant screenshot from Boondocks here>
JK coulda kept her mouth shut and have remained as a beloved author forever. I’ll never understand what could drive someone to taint their legacy for zero gain.
She became a billionaire and has almost certainly curtailed her social network to sycophants that not only agree with everything she says, they also boost her ego. That plus not wanting to lose the attention of the world will have her respond to whatever provokes the attention of the masses.
I’m not up 100% on how this all started because I genuinely don’t give a shit about Harry Potter but I would not be surprised if she made a controversial statement as a person with a huge platform, got a bunch of flak, and then once the dust settled realized how much “engagement” (read: attention) she got from it and subsequently doubled down over and over.
A great deal of human behavior is attention maintained. We have this ignorance though that “bad” attention is not desirable. Research continually shows that attention maintained behavior is perpetually reinforced by attention, not attention of a certain quality. Eg if your child exhibits an attention maintained behavior and you say “stop doing that or you’re grounded” the likelihood is that the behavior is still reinforced (and will subsequently be more likely) because attention was still achieved. The attention may have higher reinforcement potency if it is “positive” but that doesn’t mean “negative” attention doesn’t have a potentially powerful impact.
This is why the current social landscape of 3rd place community centers being social media, which almost exclusively give algorithmic favor to content that shows high “engagement” (read: annoying bullshit that many simple can’t resist interacting with) is probably one of the most toxic developments in the modern history of humanity. It encourages ugly behavior and reinforces disgusting belief systems. It is also why the age old advice of “don’t feed the trolls” is sage wisdom
It’s the manifestation of “all publicity is good publicity”
It seems becoming filthy rich causes your brain to turn into a hateful goo. There is really no exception to this, just varying degrees of billionaires being more or less good at hiding how they have become insane hateful creatures.
Gabe Newell. Instead of rotting his brain on bigotry, he just buys another yacht.
The clues to who she is were there all along in her writing. She couldn’t keep quiet, because she believes what she’s doing is right. Because she’s conservative.
The only major black character in the series is called “Shacklebolt”. The only Asian, “Cho Chang”. Zero LGBTQ representation in the books. Harry had the world at his feet and decided to join the police. The whole struggle of the saga is for a return to the status quo, rather than a better world. General lack of female agency, and women just being hysterical and needing to be slapped out of it. Goblins as an antisemitic trope. I could go on.
I put it to you that it was inevitable that, one way or another, her rancorous bile would have spilled out into the public debate as soon as she got famous.JK Rowling was always a liberal centrist. From an old 4Chan post:
It very neatly describes the way liberals see the world and political struggle.
Lots of people complain about the anti-climactic ending, but really I don’t think it could any other way. I’d like to imagine that there’s some alternate universe where Rowling actually believed in something and Harry was actually built up as the anti-Voldemort he was only hinted as being in the beginning of the books. Where he’s opposes all the many injustices of the wizarding world and determines to change their frequently backwards, insular, contradictory society for the better, and forms his own faction antithetical to the Death Eaters and when he finally has his showdown with Voldy. Harry surpasses by adopting new methods, breaking the rules and embracing change and the progression of history. While Voldemort clings to an idyllic imaging of the past and the greatest extent of his dreams is to become the self-appointed god of a eternally stagnant Neverland. Harry has embraced the possibility of a shining future and so can overcome the self-imposed limits Voldemort could never cross, and Voldemort is ultimately defeated by this.
But that would require a Harry that believed in something, and since Rowling is a liberal centrist Blairite that doesn’t really believe in anything, Harry can’t believe in anything. Harry lives in a world drought with conflict and injustice, a stratified class society, slavery of sentient magical creatures, the absurd charade the wizarding world puts upto enforce their own self-segregation, a corrupted and bureaucracy-choked government, rampant racism, so on and so forth But Harry is little more than a passive observer for most of it, only the racism really bothers him (and then, really only racism against half-bloods). In fact, when Hermione stands up against the slavery of elves, she’s treated as some kind of ridiculous Soapbox Sadie. For opposing chattel slavery. In the end. the biggest force for change is Voldemort and Harry and friends only ever fight for the preservation and reproduction of the status quo. The very height of Harry’s dreams is to join the aurors. a sort of wizard FBI and the ultimate defenders of the wizarding status quo. Voldemort and the Death Eaters are the big instigators of change and Harry never quite gets to Vold/s level. Harry doesn’t even beat Voldemort, Voldemort accidentally kills himself because he violated some obscure technicality that causes one of his spells to bounce back at him.
And this is really the struggle of liberals, they live in a world fraught with conflict, but aren’t particularly bothered by any of it except those bit that threaten multicultural pluralism. They see change, and the force behind that change, as a wholly negative phenomenon. Even then, they can only act within the legal and ideological framework of their society. So. for instance, instead of organizing insurrectionary and disruptive activity against Trump and the far-right, all they can do is bang their drum about what a racist bigot he is and hope they can catch him violating some technicality that will allow them to have him impeached or at least destroy his political clout. It won’t work, it will never work, but that’s the limit of liberalism just as it was the limit of Harry Potter.
My initial theory is that JK Rowling saw trans women as a threat to her status quo. At the end of the day, that’s all Centrist Liberals care about. Social progress can’t affect their status quo. It’s why Centrist Liberals will always back fascism. Fascism is designed to protect the status quo. The problem is that Centrist Liberals don’t understand that fascism requires an out group to work and those Centrist Liberals will be the out group at one point.
From an old 4Chan post:
Noting that it was a /leftypol/ (8chan era) post. https://archive.ph/yX2TS#1745693
I want to caution about reading -isms into authors works. People often don’t really know their own stereotyping unless it’s pointed out (you, dear reader, probably have some problematic world views that no one has noticed or mentioned…). The fallout afterwards is where the problems exist, when someone doubles down on their viewpoints after being informed of them.
Rowling has clearly done that and is dismissed because of it. I will avoid things that give her a platform, and the original art itself is tainted due to her continued stances; but, back to the general case, just because art might be racist or antisemitic, etc., at the time of creation, if the artist can be convinced that their views are wrong, we should celebrate that – just with footnotes and context.
I think everyone -including public figures- should be allowed to learn from their mistakes and grow. I think social media can interfere with that and make people refuse to admit error and double down for fear of being cancelled. Ideally this should change.
But, the case of Jo Rowling in particular is egregious. Not only does she refuse to engage with the possibility of being wrong, her bigotry extends beyond words, into concrete, hateful actions where she is fuelling the fire of transphobia worldwide with her influence, both parasocial and financial. That results in misery and suffering for millions. Fuck Jo Rowling.
This condemnation of her doesn’t extend to everyone. And if she one day sees the light and walks everything back, then she should get a chance to redeem herself, too.JKR is allowed to learn and grow! She just refuses to and her takes keep getting worse.
I was certainly not defending her. She is, as you say, egregious in part because when she was called out she refused to reflect. I was more talking in the general sense. The world sucks right now, but we are quick to attack people on their views without granting them opportunity to change.
I call this out because of the trend of ‘leopards-eating-faces’ kind of jokes. When the leopards eat your face, you might notice they were not friendly to begin with and the rest of civilization can welcome you back instead of mocking you; or they can mock you and you will feel isolated and defensive and the other bigots will welcome and validate you instead.
She also describes women that she wants the reader to hate as having masculine features. “Mannish hands,” a square jawline and thick neck on a teenage girl, there’s plenty in the first book alone.
The only major black character in the series is
*was ;-)
Wasn’t there one Irish guy, and he had an experiment blow up in his face?
Never gave a shit about the series but remember hearing about token characters having a dose of racism to them.
Not just that, he was also obsessed with turning drinks into alcohol. As a 15 year old kid. I’m pretty sure he also tried to blow up multiple things as well, I don’t think it was a one time thing.
We Irish weren’t really bothered tbh.
Maybe not, but it’s definitely a symptom of a larger problem. Taken on its own, having the stereotypical Irish IRA member/drunk kid is a gag, but when you look at that plus the black kid named after slavery, the Asian girl named two single syllable last names (practically named Ching Chong), and a number of other semi-racist stereotypes in the books, it points towards somebody who is uncreative enough to avoid basing her characters on generic stereotypes or doesn’t do any research before writing a character at best, and somebody who actually views those people that way at worst - a racist.
Could you be overthinking it?
Every billionaire pulls up the ladder behind them in their own special and unique way.
Personally I’m on team black mold
But yeah I’ve had same thoughts. Seems like such a weird hill to die on even when you do have those beliefs.
Hubris, mostly. The success of her brainchild went to her head and this made her open her large trap for the whole world to hear.
What if I pirate it, talk to no one about it (not by choice but still) and then destroy all memories of it through aggressive drug use?
Congrats, you’ve found a way of having your cake and eating it too… though by eating it and vomiting it back into your hands.
Why not just skip to the drug use phase?
Don’t go for the aggressively drug use, every 1.5 months go for an LSD or MDMA trip (3 months between each). Don’t heavily mix with alcohol (I like to have a beer mit trip but that’s all). Look up for different kind of electronic music parties, you’re going to find one that match your vibe.
Skip the extra steps and go straight to the drug use, that’s what id do.
Very enjoyable reply to lazy ortography. excellent service. ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐
Thank you kindly for the opportunity to play :)
You just want to do drugs
